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Comments

by 55 Million Reasons on 05/26/2008 11:55 am

soon all will be able to visit my online anonymous message board/chat room/avatar museum called Anti Anti English Spectrum. we will have many stories and documentation of low quality and illegal Koreans who damage South Korea's image on the world stage. we will stand against and secretly gather intel which will enable us to slander and maim the reputations of low quality Korean teachers who abuse women in public, molest their students, distribute leftist propaganda, or seek to degrade or debase the hard work of thousands of foreign teachers who come to Korea in good faith only to be sexually objectified, judged, spit on, laughed at, humiliated, mistreated by shady school owners, or abused by a racist system that favors people of the Han.

by Aaron on 05/26/2008 12:09 pm

Hilarious. Reminds me of my childhood when my friends and I would build a clubhouse and would write a constitution to keep people we didn't like out.

by baekgom84 on 05/26/2008 01:18 pm

Damn right. It's lucky for Korean girls that they have responsible young men like this to protect them from the temptations of hairy, sweaty, big-nosed foreigners (mmm...) because, let's face it, Korean girls have no minds of their own and only do what they're told. Shame on you, foreigners. Shame on you.

by William G on 05/26/2008 01:30 pm

We are Anti-English Spectrum, fighting for justice for a land whose heart is not yet shriveled up.

Well, I for one am glad to hear their hearts haven't shriveled up consideing their balls have obviously withered away.

by Foreigner on 05/26/2008 04:37 pm

I dunno, I've seen several instances of Korean men hitting or joseling their women in public and the only reason i didnt pop the guy is that I am quite sure the Korean legal system would still favor him. The reason that so many Korean women gravitate to Western men is because so many Korean men treat their women like shit. Dont blame us cuz we know that if we treated women like that back home we'd live a lonely life. I'm not trying to stereotype but i agree. When is the last time you have heard of a foreigner committing an assult on a Korean girl? Now think of how many instances there are of Korean men assaulting western women. This may sound ugly but tell me if Im wrong.

by budthespud on 05/26/2008 05:58 pm

The problem isn't Korean men hurting Korean women, the problem lies in society and its easy acceptance of violence. You don't "pop the guy" because in the eyes of the law you are the only one committing a crime. You attacked a stranger, you're the bad person.It's perfectly fine to hurt someone, as long as they are family, a friend, or a "junior". Or failing all that, a "respected" older person. All that's a generalization, though often true.

Anti-spectrum site participants are nothing but racists, if you were to flip it around, make the Koreans on the receiving end in your home country, our gov'ts would write them off as racists, and our newspapers would rip them a new one. They'd be shunned and minimalized, wouldn't have the cops working with them, that's for certain.

by on 05/26/2008 07:01 pm

Yeh, you're right... but you are not in your country!
So do everything you can to ameliorate the image of the foreign teachers community instaed of always blaming the bad and horrible racists in Korea. You will not change the genaral mind but you can point out at positive things that ESL teachers or others can do for the Koreans. You want respect, do something to prove you deserve it!

by alex on 05/27/2008 12:07 am

I dont even know how this turned into a discussion. Can one single person here actually agree with the author of the article? Because if you dont, there should be no contradictory thoughts flaring on this board. Unless of course, (insert name here) is trying to tip pie toe around his or her convictions to not make it seem as offensive ;).

by woot on 05/27/2008 02:30 am

Well it's directed at those foreigners that date korean girls and cowardly post racist comments on about them on the internet or criticize them and their culture....kinda like this site?
grow some balls please?

by LOL on 05/27/2008 02:35 am

Has anyone read some of the websites and forums for foreign teachers/expats?

there's a lot of scum on those boards and they're openly humilating these girls, their clients, neighbors whomever. They have an air of open ignorance/arrogance...i'm sure you can all relate. I saw this coming as soon as the expat idiots got a hold of the keyboard.

by Whoeezit on 05/27/2008 02:40 am

Look up the instances of foreignors raping/killing/abusing korena women on the web. The korean population reads up on this stuff while foreigners only remembers korean men abusing women. It goes both ways, but still making a comment like "Korean men treat women like shit, so we should come in and rescue/liberate theM" is the most retarded,
racist and sexist ideology that's common with most foreign visitors. Get off your fuckin high horses! Why is it so hard to treat the koreans like i do, as INDIVIDUALS instead of somthing so exotically collective? Dumbasses.

by NUFF on 05/27/2008 02:45 am

uh...it's a backlash over a moronic "how to molest your students" post by a teacher.

I think all this backlash is justified. If this kinda stuff happened at home, we'd have riots.

by on 05/27/2008 02:58 am

YOU ARE NOT AT HOME it's about time you accept it!

by Galbijim on 05/27/2008 06:13 am

95% of the netizen comments on that site are from Korean males. With that in mind, I think it's quite obvious that all of this is window-dressing for them feeling slighted that we can pick up Korean girls just by showing up at a bar and not having to go through their tortured courtship rituals like brokered intros (ie., 부킹, 소개팅, 중매결혼, etc...)

by budthespud on 05/27/2008 07:45 am

"Look up the instances of foreigners raping/killing/abusing korean women on the web."

Got a link or three?




Koreabeat, they found you.

by Korea Beat on 05/27/2008 08:36 am

Like I said, I've never heard of any credible allegation of an ESL teacher in Korea committing a major violent crime. Foreigners in general, yes, westerners, very litte, and ESL teachers, none. If Whoeezit knows different I would love to see the link.

And woot, if you have an example of me being racist, please tell me. Don't hold your tongue.

by Brian on 05/27/2008 09:15 am

You probably saw the fluff piece in the Korea Times a few weeks ago, where this group---under a new name---was working to improve the image of foreigners in Korea by expelling the bad ones. *Sigh* I'd actually just prefer the unbridled racism to these thinly-vieled attempts at legitimacy. Problem is, I'll bet a lot of people who read that KT piece hadn't heard of the group in its previous incarnation.

Somebody else pointed this out, I think on Dave's, that he doesn't understand the connection between having a social life and being "qualified." I mean, they go after white guys ostensibly to clean up the EFL industry, but why does going to the bar automatically disqualify somebody? The problem is "qualified" is used to mean two things: (a) documented, and (b) skilled. I don't know if I'm skilled, but I'm certainly qualified in the eyes of the government, because I have all my paperwork in order. And no amount of dancing, drinking, and race-mixing will change that.

by Matt on 05/27/2008 09:16 am

Let's see, a group that wants to preserve the purity of the race by eliminating foreigners...I think we have a group like that back home. They're called the KKK. What, exactly, makes these "patriots" any different from the KKK? I see two sides of the same coin.

Please, if you have links about foreign teachers committing acts of violence, post them. I can't remember ever hearing a story where the teacher was the criminal instead of the victim.

by AgentX on 05/27/2008 10:09 am

So the neti-dorks are still uppity over the english spectrum stuff?
Well, that's just too bad. They need to grow up and get outside.
I remember reading an article about the netizens. Whenever the police come to their house, they're almost always young, meek, weak-sounding, and unaware of the problems they caused. In other words, paper tigers.
So they want to expel illegal EFL teachers, huh? Since when are they empowered to do this by the Ministry of Justice? Because one way to check this is to check for an ARC, but that's not a citizen's job.

So they got uppity over a party that some foreigners hosted, huh? In which case, I have some tips for you neti-dorks.
Instead of whining and carrying on when I'm at the bar with 2 ladies, you should take notes. It's not rocket science. Well OK, for you it might as well be rocket science, but still. If you can't get a Korean woman, that's not our fault. There's plenty here so you don't have any excuse. As we say back home "Grow a pair"

by hitest on 05/27/2008 10:31 am

I bet all the members of the cafe still live at home, making slaves of their mothers and paupers out of their fathers, playing video games all day trying to blaim someone, anyone for their inadequacies and over-inflated expectations of the life they think they deserve for sitting in frount of a mirror, obsessing over their hair and waving a flag at every cause they couldn't possably understand.

As a teacher I must say, thank goodness for ignorance. I will never be out of a job :)

I have gone from anger to pity. Soon, indifference.

I am happy to have met some really good Koreans otherwise I might lets these silly people flavour my perceptions of Korea.

by NUFF on 05/27/2008 11:56 am

umm... let's not stray too far from the issue here- this isn't just foriegners picking up korean chicks. These are TEACHERS posting about MOLESTING thier STUDENTS. does anyone not get how offensively shocking that is? TEACHERS MOLESTING STUDENTS or even just joking about that is SERIOUS. Maybe it has to do with the quality of the teachers here. No one really has a deep cultural respect for anything- it's just people with an innate native english skill goofin around and seeing the world. Obviously "seeing" the world doesn't add any attempt to understand the culture. In fact most of the 1st year teachers end up bitchin about how "different" it is here (duh) and later become to resent the people. I sense a lot of resentment on this site as well. I kno for a fact if a Korean dude came to the states and did even HALF the stuff these fucks do here, they'd be torching stores down the block. So take it for what it is and try to prove there's some good people out there instead of "expecting" that korean will hand feed you everything.

by hitest on 05/27/2008 01:32 pm

Nuff I am sorry to disagree, in part with what you claim.

I certainly do not advocate anyone molesting students, especially not their teachers, but who are you refering to ?

As I understand someone posted a "how to molest your students" some years back, which of course, even if meant to be a joke was, and still is in extremely bad taste.

Are you suggesting that this group is formed around this incident ? Do you have other incidents ?

The issue seems to be " Westerners degrade our woman by being with them." Lets not forget the women are making choices and exercising their free will to choose to do what they want to do.

Yet again it is the evil foreigner "forcing" Korean women to debase themselves,because as we all know Korean women are incapable of controling themselves around blue eyes. If that is how Korean men see Korean women, no wonder they choose to "integrate".

As I see it, the group is looking for a reason to spread hate and looking for an out let for their petty jealousy.

I am all for getting rid of bad, unscrupulous teachers, Korean or non-Korean. As a matter of fact I wish they would stop hiring just anyone to teach, then they wouldn't have to get rid of anyone.

As I see it, to be honest, Koreans deserve the blaim for their desperate hiring practices. But of course, one sees most clearly outward. Looking inward takes insight and honesty.

by shocked on 05/27/2008 02:57 pm

last weekend my waygook friend and I were walking down the sidewalk and we saw some guy (early 20's) angry at his gf... he grabbed her and put her in a headlock, indeed showing her who's boss. Irate, my buddy and I instantly and simultaneously grabbed the guy. I literally had to rip the guy's arm off her neck. Knowing that he was outnumbered, he didn't try anything with us, but was surprised that we'd intervened, and told us English, literally, "it's ok! it's my girlfriend!" We told him it's not, and he argued for a few seconds before I yelled at him in Korean, at which point he apologized profusely to us. We told him to apologize to her, but that didn't work. I hope he didn't clean her clock after we left and they went somewhere private. On the surface, the guy wouldn't have come across as a piece of trash, but I can only imagine what some person back home with a similar entitled-to-abuse-his-gf-in-public attitude would have looked like.

by livinginkorea on 05/27/2008 04:36 pm

Haha "paper tigers." Great stuff.

by dwilliams on 05/27/2008 06:49 pm

"the reason that so many Korean women gravitate to Western men is because so many Korean men treat their women like shit."

Bull#$$ Western men do the same thing so stop telling that lie. Also Korean women gravitate to Western men based upon a myth which states all of them are rich-which they're not.

by Korea Beat on 05/27/2008 08:20 pm

Nuff, I will repeat, have you ever heard of a credible allegation of molestation made against an ESL teacher? I personally have not. And I would think that if there had been one in the past decade, or even longer, it almost certainly would have already been brought up in this comments section already.

by on 05/27/2008 08:56 pm

I have: "Christopher Paul Neil an English teacher in South Korea. He was a Canaddian born in 1975 (...) Cambodian police said on Tuesday a suspected serial pedophile being hunted by Interpol across Asia was a Canadian national called Christopher Paul Neil, born in 1975.

Keo Vanthan, deputy director of Interpol offices in the impoverished Southeast Asian nation, said Neil had visited Cambodia before leaving for Vietnam, but had no further details.

"We have issued an alert to all our international borders," Keo Vanthan told Reuters, although he added that Cambodia did not yet have enough evidence against Neil to issue an arrest warrant.

Interpol said on Monday the suspect, code-named "Vico", was believed to have fled to Thailand last week from South Korea where he had been teaching English."
You can check this info on the web!

by on 05/27/2008 09:28 pm

I totally agree with comment #9 from Woot! Most Westerners who date Korean girls are so hypocritical: you can see them at the CGV holding hands and looking all nice... and then next thing, you can read comments on the net about their sexual intercourse! Hey guys, stop acting like lubricious animals. Please act either like gentlemen or arseholes right from the beginning so that we, women, know what we can expect from you. And this is also applicable when dating western girls. Your attitude is despicable. On this site I keep reading comments on how Korean guys do not know how to treat their girfriends properly and how contrarily to them Westerners are soft and sweet with their women... It makes me want to puke! And this is coming from a Western girl who happily married a Korean man.

by Korea Beat on 05/27/2008 09:49 pm

Christopher Paul Neil was never accused of a crime in South Korea. Maybe I'm going to sound cold-hearted but it's hard to see how he can count in this debate.

by on 05/27/2008 10:28 pm

LOL! Do you know for sure that Christopher Neil didn't abuse Korean children? Personnaly I don't know, but he did abuse some kids in Thailand and cambodia so why would he have spared Korean ones?

by William G on 05/27/2008 10:38 pm

And this is coming from a Western girl who happily married a Korean man.
Bullshit

No one really has a deep cultural respect for anything- it’s just people with an innate native english skill goofin around and seeing the world.
Bullshit

First off, the "How To Molest Your Students" thing was on Koreanesl.com... which was owned by a Korean living in Canada. And it was written by one of the trolls who are trolling this comment thread right now. It had nothing to do with any of this.

Secondly, Anti-English Spectrum are ballless cunt-faces who are angry that young Korean women like the white cock.

And in a few generations, there are going to be a lot of white babies running around in the hermit kingdom while they're still sitting there playing Starcraft in between rants.

by on 05/27/2008 11:37 pm

MANY Korean men (complete strangers) come up to my Asian boyfriend and ask him how he "got me", a white woman. They have asked him if it is because he is rich,(no) and even about the size of his penis!!! Some have even gone so far as so "check" when he is using the toliet. They can not belive it and ask him how they can do it to. A very strange preoccupation based only on the colour of my skin...or maybe I'm just really hot! ;) (joke)

by on 05/28/2008 12:10 am

Hey, William G! Who the fuck are you to assume that I'm lying?! My Name is Alexandra Kim from France, I got married in 2002 in Korea with Min Ho Kim, a taekwondo master! I can prove my ID any time and even kick you arse since I am also a Taekwondo black belt. Fucking looser!

by on 05/28/2008 01:14 am

And I'd like to had (to my last comment #33) that if you want to debate on this with my husband you are invited to his Taekwondo gym... We'll see if you don't shit your pants! He always tells me that I shouldn't get concerned about people like you who always look down on Koreans, that I can only waste my time... but now his fists are getting itchy! Fancy a try?

by Galbijim on 05/28/2008 04:02 am

너 양말냄새나!

by Galbijim on 05/28/2008 04:17 am

음..이상한 영어...아~..맞아! 교포냄새나!

by on 05/28/2008 09:21 am

HAHA! Alex was causing problems in another thread (the one about mixed asian kids doing poorer in school cause their fathers cant be bothered to teach them Korean) and so has come back Anonymously in this one. lol

by Korea Beat on 05/28/2008 09:31 am

I don't think Alex was causing any trouble in the other thread, but this one is getting out of control and if people don't start being relatively civil again I'm going to lock it from further discussion.

by budthespud on 05/28/2008 09:44 am

GJ, my thoughts exactly.

Too bad the Korean police aren't concerned about pedophiles in this country. There are so many Korean ones it's not funny, so many are working as teachers in the middle and high schools here. There are MANY stories every month about that, yet very little gets done. At most, a teacher accused of sexual harrassment of a student may get a paid holiday, or moved to a new school. Also, it's not a new phenomenon, my wife has stories from her school days of the male principal and his disgusting antics. The students had to strip down to their skivvies for a health inspection, and the principal would look over every girl student, paying special attention to certain body parts. Ewww!

by alex on 05/28/2008 10:28 am

hahahahahahahahqa


" While they're still playing starcraft between rants "

omgz0r =O Dude, that was brilliant. My hats off to ya.

by on 05/28/2008 04:14 pm

in response to comment #38 from Korea Beat:

The thing is, whether you are Korean or not, that some reactions on the issue "Korean women dating foreigners for whatever reasons and in whatever context" are particularly hurting. My apologies for the swearing, a teacher should know better, but I think we should consider this topic from a larger angle of vision than just the Korean/Foreigner one. Whatever the nationality, attitude problems between men and women have always existed everywhere in the world. So I think it is really unfare to say "Koreans can't treat their women properly" and "Westerners never lose an occasion to mock Korean girls". From my personal point of view I had more problems with Westerners than with Koreans, so you will excuse me if I'm taking their side (even if some of the Anti-English Spectrum members are going too far). So when William G allows himself to write such things as " their balls have obviously withered away" on comment #4, "Anti-English Spectrum are ballless cunt-faces who are angry that young Korean women like the white cock" comment #31 or "And this is coming from a Western girl who happily married a Korean man - Bullshit" still on comment #31, please allow me to ask the members of this forum who is going too far? Shall we all excuse him for his lack of manners and discernment? I don't think so! Obviously, some people taking part in discussions on this site are not who they pretend to be, ie: people with extenSive education.

by JM on 05/28/2008 05:20 pm

unfortunately there are problems between men and women all over the world, whether it be abuse (physical, verbal, mental), manners, etc.... i think as individuals, we do have the right to say what we feel, however, we also must think outside the box (in this case Korea) and try not to forget where we came from.... no country is perfect and many are different... i've been here over 4 years and will be married next year (to a Korean woman) and I'm still getting used to things... bottom line is, when it comes to forums like these, we need to be level-headed.... what was once a comment about an article, has now turned into insults and backlash against each other...

i too have strong feelings regarding this topic as well as others (Korean police) and have gotten into heated discussions numerous times... but at the end of the day, my frustration changed nothing... it's almost like we have to learn to deal with things (just like we do back home) instead of flipping out... anywho, just my 2 cents worth...

by on 05/28/2008 09:23 pm

The internet has pretty much ended the idea that the union of a white male and an Asian female is necessarily positive-East meets West and from which understanding, respect, and lots of other good stuff will develop blah blah blah. Too many white guys gloating about their conquest of Asian women, and not enough Asian women challenging the racially charged misogyny of said white men. Also not enough white guys, who are free of contempt for the local culture, in relationships with local women will confront other white guys who are assholes.

I'm really not against inter-racial relationships, but there is no other coupling that just seems so unsavory. In the west, we are lead to believe that such couples should be regarded as people who are open minded and therefore should be admired. And that is the case for all the different couplings except for the Asian female/white male one. This idea is becoming much more prevalent.

Finally this is addressed to Korean Beat:
You seem to concentrate on the trivial. And thats okay, it's your blog. But I do have a request. Are you aware of any Korean news articles about the deaths of two Korean nationals in New Zealand. Both made the New Zealand news, but is there something in the Korean language news about their deaths. The most recent one involved a car accident, but no body was found. NZ police speculate that the man survived the crash and walked away, but no body was found. The latest I read in the NZ press is that he could have possibly been murdered.

Let me speculate a bit. The man survives the crash, he walks away to look for help. He flags down someone, however instead of help the person kills the Korean. Not too far-fetched if you think about it. Quite a bit of white power activity in NZ recently. Look it up on YouTube. Why is it important? Koreans should be wary when they travel abroad. Not all locals are friendly.

Also your attempt to exclude the Canadian pedo from the debate about ESL teachers and molesting children is feeble.

by on 05/28/2008 09:58 pm

What are Asian women saying about these relationships? We hear from the white men and the Asian men but what are Asian women saying about the relationships they are in? Are they making their voices heard on the English Spectrum site? The Korean women that I know as a whole would not so weak minded that they would just sit there and take it.

I also wonder just how many of these white men who are making these comments on these sites are actually doing the things that they say they did. In an online place where no one knows who they are I doubt that they would every over glorify their deads. :P Just as perhaps these Korean men are just supposidly spending all their time online playing Starcraft and complaining about white guys stealing their girls, I'm sure there are plenty of white guys who cant get a date going online and making up their sextual exploits in an attempt to impress their online buddies.

by Korea Beat on 05/28/2008 11:14 pm

I sure wish I knew which anonymous commenter to respond to. Pick screen names, guys. It isn't really that hard.

Anyway, I won't disagree that there are unsavory inter-racial relationships. And sure, internet tough guys pop up on both sides. My point is, at least be civil when responding to other commenters. If you can't, don't comment.

As far as Christopher Paul Neil, the guy was never accused in Korea. And the kids he abused in other countries were not his students -- as far as I know, they were kids being held captive and he paid to be with them.

by on 05/29/2008 12:19 am

I'm the Anonymous who made the 43rd comment. Your call for civility should have been made much earlier. Neither my comment nor the 44th comment were uncivil.

Since you did not address my request for any info on the two Koreans who died in NZ, I'll take it to mean that either the story was never reported in the Korean language press or you just missed it. If it is the latter case, then I guess it's understandable. You seem really busy with reporting on such weighty topics as Nicky Hilton and the Anti-English Spectrum. The sarcasm is intentional.

As for the Canadian pedo, well let me first say that you should know childhood sexual abuse is a very serious matter. I think you grew up in the west. If you grew up in the US, then you should know about the terrible tragedy of the catholic priests who molested young boys. I think a number of the young boys ended up committing suicide.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with saying "the guy was never accused in Korea" with regards to molesting young children. The Canadian had no business teaching young children anywhere. If you want to keep defending him then let me ask you this: Would you allow this man to teach your kids?

Anyway, Korea does have a problem. It spends quite a bit on learning English, but the results are not good. Since English is important, the education ministry should do something substantial. It needs to learn from say the Finns on how to teach English. What that means is more native Koreans who are fluent in English with better teaching methods. The results will probably be much better and less expensive.

Finally, the Koreans need to dispense with the idea that only a native English speaker can teach proper English. Koreans have made the mistake of associating language with a certain race. Koreans need to see people like themselves who speak English well. That should reduce the intimidation factor that seems to prevent Koreans from learning English.

by Galbijim on 05/29/2008 12:39 am

The employer who hired Christopher Paul Neil without doing due diligence screening, was Korean. And 95% of the recruiters and employers in Korea who are scrambling to find any warm white body to stand in front of a classroom, are Korean. The screening process is absolutely pathetic and basically amounts to a 10 minute phone call which people call an interview, but its more of a sales pitch to get the teacher to commit. And these are Koreans and kyopos being entrusted to hire in the best interests of students (and the helpless, young Korean women who fall under the spell of the white barbarians and are forced against their will to date and/or copulate with them.)

You complain about the white barbarians as if that's the source of the problem, yet fail to acknowledge that your own countrymen are not willingly holding the door open, but are clamoring for any white barbarian that burps out a 'yes'.

You propose braindead solutions on your site such as encouraging directors to hire women or kyopos instead, without realizing that you are creating a greater bottleneck of the root problem. The demand for women has become so high that white girls get approached on the street in Itaewon and are able to command over 100,000won/hour for private lessons, and thereby driving the underground industry so much that not only do schools have to fight over the limited supply of available female teachers, but that many Canadian girls are starting to instead work underground on 6 month tourist visas, because they can make so much more.

And Korean mothers may put on a happy face about seeing a kyopo in a classroom, but they sure as hell don't prefer them over whites. Even white men. Anyone who disagrees on that point is thinking with their dick and not about the prejudicial hiring that exists not just in ESL Korea, but also white collar Korea concerning the underemployment/opportunities for Korean women (and contrary to how the media says that's changing, just ask any HR manager of any company about the clammy hands that they get once they hear that a female employee has become pregnant and the uncertainty if she'll resume her career after taking mat leave).

Anyways, the point is that the rabbit hole runs far deeper than the surface issues of drunk foreigners in Hongdae picking up girls or belching in classrooms.

The source of the problem you complain about, as much as you don't want to admit it, is of Korean origin and it'd best to get the affairs of your profiteering countrymen in order, before complaining about the byproduct that stems from their actions.

by on 05/29/2008 01:36 am

Galbijim,

If you're addressing the 46th comment, then let me respond by saying that you must have chosen to ignore what I said about Koreans and their attitudes about race and language. And anti-english spectrum is not my site.

In my previous comment I specifically stated Native Koreans should teach english. Overseas Koreans, in my opinion should not in most cases be given any preferential treatment over others. Koreans who grew up in english speaking countries seem to interact uncomfortably with Native Koreans.

Just to restate what I said about english language instruction in Korea. Native Koreans who majored in english should teach their fellow Koreans. Let them study in an english speaking country for up to two years while they are in college at the expense of the state. They should also learn how to teach a foreign language. This plan may seem expensive, but it cannot be more than what Koreans are paying with the current system.

Also, I'm not against the AF/WM coupling. It's just that I don't have an initial good impression unlike say a White/Black relationship. The reason is because of negative statements made by many white males and the lack of responses by Asian females. If the AF/WM couple seem okay, then I'm fine with it.

by Galbijim on 05/29/2008 02:17 am

I don't know who I'm retorting to, but I'm assuming that the posters ducking behind Anonymous usernames are Korean or Kyopo and/or from that site. I've been logging in over there and reading some of the crap and their initatives/goals are completely directionless or poorly thought out. And the baselessness of it and lack of consideration of the root problems, reveals that there is a too much of a bias there to entertain anything serious on the whole issue. I'm basically responding to all of that as a whole.

However, the teacher's side is not without its own site that exudes its own naive bias and fails to approach the issue effectively, and that's eslcafe. So there are two extremes at work and both are populated by idealistic males who concoct half-assed ideas without fully understanding what ails the industry at its different levels.

As for your idea to have native Koreans teach English, I don't dismiss as that as being a poor idea. In fact, I've always been an advocate of Japan's JET Programme which employs a native Japanese to run the class, while the foreign ALT (Assistant Language Teacher) also remains in the class for support. And it would give mothers much more comfort in knowing that the teaching environment is optimized not just for eduction, but safety, as both teachers would balance out any concerns over what happens behind closed doors, regardless if it's a Korean beating the hell out of the legs of a student with her stick, or a foreign teacher swearing, sleeping or getting inappropriate with students.

But without having a foreigner in the classroom in public schools will drive the private education industry further out of control, as mothers have far less confidence in their students learning from a Korean English teacher than a foreigner. And the hagwons will still employ the whites, because they know that's what really drives tuition and enrollment, especially if public schools cease employing foreign teachers. And then with that comes more money leaving the country to overseas camps and homestays, etc...In short, it'd be more undesirable for the players in the industry to operate without native teachers than to have to tolerate them.

You can't change this issue by improving the English education of Korean teachers, as the real issue is with Korean mothers and their picky preferences. Korean mothers are the tail that wags the dog of the whole industry. And that's something that's ingrained into the competitive mindset of the society. To change the competitive educational environment that drives all this would require massive overhaul on the entire education infrastructure of the country and not just some staffing decisions made in the ESL portion.

by I made comments 43,46,48 on 05/29/2008 03:09 am

Galbijim,

The above user name is just to let people know what comments I've made.

Let me address the following statement you made:

"I don’t know who I’m retorting to, but I’m assuming that the posters ducking behind Anonymous usernames are Korean or Kyopo and/or from that site."

The implication of your statement seems to be that what Koreans have to say about english language instruction is less valid (and therefore should not be taken seriously) than what white males have to say. Fair minded people will find fault with that sort of thinking.

First I'll address what I know about the JET program. From what I've heard from teachers who have taught in both Korean and Japan, the JET program is no more effective than the way Korea teaches english. Both systems do a sub-par job. I've met a number of Japanese students and their english is not good.

I think many Koreans, who work some of the longest hours of any OECD country, are just fed up with the how little they get in return from their investment with regards to their children learning english. Of course the system should be faulted, but white males stick out and much of the anger will be directed towards you. White males who come to work hung over and make surly comments on the internet do not make you very sympathetic. Is it fair that good teachers get lumped with bad ones. Of course not. It's not fair, but I'm sure you know life is not fair. I know some of you have expressed the same sentiment.

Maybe I'm the one who is too idealistic. I really believe that Koreans can overcome the idea that only whites can teach english. The Korean mothers really need to come to grips with that fact.

Finally, I've never been on that anti-english spectrum website. There was a link to K Beat from a site called Asian Off-Beat. That's how I found this discussion.

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