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Ouch. Hat tip to commenter "oh". By the way, if you don't get the headline, click over to Wikipedia. Beautiful foreign women for various nations are pointing an accusatory finger at foreign men who easily get involved with Korean women. On the 6th the beautiful women of KBS2's "Chat With Beauties" spoke critically on the topic of "Indecent Foreigners Living in Korea." After choosing as the worst foreigners in Korea those foreigners who always speak English or their native language, never learning Korean, and easily meet Korean women they said, "most western men approach Korean women by saying they want to learn Korean." They also said there are many foreigners who live in Korea for many years but speak poor Korean. Among the criticisms a particularly strong one came from Japan-born Sayuri, who said, "when you go to a foreign country, learning that country's language is proper etiquette." They also implicitly criticized the attitude of Korean women who get involved with "tall foreign men who speak English." Kenya-born Euphracia said, "in Korea it seems that if you're tall and just speak English well, you're treated as the king... My other Kenyan friends were so surprised when they went out with they Korean girlfriends." Germany-born Vera said, "if a German guy is tall then everybody thinks he's handsome in Korea... They come to Korea and start acting like Casanova." UK-born Eva said, "foreign men who were not popular in their home countries are treated like kings... It’s so strange that dimwitted western guys with, of course, very plain features are always being followed by pretty girls." Eva added, "if a Korean friend of mine is thinking about having a western boyfriend I tell her to let me see him first. Once my Korean friend's boyfriend from the UK turned out to have a girlfriend back in the UK." Also, there has been criticism over a secretly-operated internet website where foreign men talked among themselves in terms degrading to Korean women. The site contained problematic contents such as posts about one-night experiences with Korean women, ways to be successful at seduction, and other content degrading Korean women.
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Cock-blocking by the Misuda girls?? I thought I'd seen it all...
"Sure. Of course, I can remember these answers for the program. I dont want to lose this job. I'll say whatever you want me to say...."
I just read that wikipedia entry about Charisma Man. Pure gold. But before the comments here really explode (and they will shortly) I wonder how that kind of comic would be perceived by a lot of ex-pats in Korea, or at least the ones who frequent blogs like this? I'm guessing it wouldn't be received in very good humour.
Well, a lot of foreign women do feel that way. I doubt it was scripted!
I'm thinking the most posters will resort to the typical ad hominem attacks as opposed to self-critique and reflection of what the expat community has mutated into.
Well, considering that the premise of this show is having foreign women flatter and butter up the egos of Korean men, this is only natural. The foreign women are just giving the audience what it wants to hear. The context of this is the gender imbalance of the Western demand for Korean men and women. The Western demand for Korean women is much higher than for Korean men, both domestically in Korea and internationally. This imbalance no doubt has bruised Korean men's egos (as it would to any group of men around the world), so a show like this, and episodes like this, serve as a kind of salve. What's ironic is that quite a few of these women would never make it on a show in their home countries, aside from being in the audience, because they're not hot enough.
I watch the show often with my wife for my own Korean practice, and I usually like the discussion. Sayuri, though, is most definitely not in any position to make those comments, as she had spent time studying in the States herself. There's a similar phenomenon in the States where non-Asian men are attracted to Asian girls just because they are Asian. There are different ideals of beauty at work here, and I don't see how foreign women in Korea have any authority to critique a private relationship between another man and woman. I do agree with what some of the misuda panel is saying (learning the language of the country you are living in, for example), but a lot of their comments come off with either a tinge of jealousy or unfounded contempt, and it especially doesn't help that they group together foreign men into a generalized category. How am I supposed to escape the criticism? Should I work on reducing my height and changing my gender for fear that people might perceive me to be "on the prowl"? And how can anyone on the panel who has ever dated a Korean man criticize foreign men for dating Korean women? I specifically remember seeing Eva debut on a Korean version of a reality TV show where a group of Korean guys battle over a couple of girls. Kind of hypocritical, no? On a tangent, my wife and I have discussed the idea of 미남들의 수다 (featuring foreign men instead of women), and both of us think that it's more difficult for Koreans to digest the same sort of comments coming from foreign males instead of females. That really puts into perspective more gender issues at play here.
"Im thinking the [sic] most posters will resort to the typical ad hominem attacks as opposed to self-critique and reflection of what the expat community has mutated into." Damn right. "What’s ironic is that quite a few of these women would never make it on a show in their home countries, aside from being in the audience, because they’re not hot enough." SO true. But is it ironic, or hypocritical? Or both?
Envy seems to be the national pasttime here. "If my cousin buys a house, I get a stomachache." Let's update: "If I see a happy couple, I get really pissed off. Especially if it's (horror of horrors) a white guy and a Korean girl." Please Misuda, mind your own ignorant business.
Sure, they're right in some ways, but I think #2 is on the money, and I'm curious if any of the panelists spoke up against this stereotyping. I'm curious if the male version of "Chat with the Casanovas" will debate "Why are Canadian chicks in Korea always so fat?" or "Do Russian girls really put out so easily?" Oh, wait, that's right, there is no TV show where Korean women flirt with foreign men.
I would have hoped that given the opportunity to be seen and heard on TV by many Koreans, these women would have avoided making broad generalizations about people. Instead, maybe they could promote the idea that foreigners come in all different shapes and sizes and are not identical. I don't think they have the right to judge the nature of a relationship between two consenting adults.
I have also notice the Phenomenon of Korean girls liking tall foreigners, it is kind of interesting. But it is a little ironic that if you are tall, girls can follow you around, where if you are pretty woman you can be on T.V. I agree with a bunch of what they say though about trying to learn Korean. The problem I think is that it is too easy to live here in English. I think it is interesting how easily people from other countries bitch about how people can't speak English here. Duh. (Even though Koreans do spend too much time studying English to not be able to speak it.) I have seen a lot of hopeless fucks here who walk into convience stores and order beers from the ancient store owners in English, that shit can be pretty depressing.
Hypocrisy! nothing more to say.
There was scripting/tell the audience what they want to hear in that show!!! I dont think the panellist represent any of their countries well especially when it comes to questions about men.....So what's wrong with anyone from anywhere dating another from anywhere?..Its not even an issue for discussion....but an individual's choice...what wrong with being tall? Its known all over the world that women dislike short 'things' and short people...korean girls are not unique on that...the show should as suggested host foreign men and get a reality check
Sayuri speaking Korean well is about as impressive as a Spanish person speaking fluent Portuguese. Most of these girls wouldn't give normal guys the time of day they are superficial too otherwise they wouldn't be on a program just for their looks. So they can speak Korean, so what so can I and so can many many immigrant workers from Africa or South East Asia the only rason they get on t.v. is because they are 'pretty'. What's the difference between guys enjoying attention for being tall and them enjoying attention for being 'pretty'? The majority of them are here at Univeristy studying Korean so what is so impressive about them speaking it? A Ugandan guy speaking Korean fluently that I met on the subway the other day even though he works in construction is way more impressive.
Can I just add that Korean girls like tall Korean guys too regardless of if they are 'good looking' and caucasian girls invariably like the 'tall dark handsome' look. So what is so new and insightful about what these girls said...? Nada.
It is so true about this show being scripted. I know one girl who appeared on the show many times, she couldn't speak Korean well, she was just fed 'cutesy funny lines' and they are basically rewarded for comments which butter up Korean egos.
3Gyupsal and Hegde, you're missing why this is so amusing, ironic, hypocritical, and ultimately annoying. The Misuda "beauties" (excepting those from the 'stans of central Asia) are spectacularly average young women who, as has been pointed out, would never be stars in their respective homelands. These young women are taking advantage of and profiting from the very same "opposites attract" phenomenon that has Korean men in such a sexual panic when it comes to the idea of Western men dating "their" women. Which in turn is also used, in conjunction with a woeful economic imbalance, by Korean "losers" to find wives in poorer Asian countries.
WEIKUBOY You are right, although I hadnt missed the point. I too see they benefit from the superficiality of fawning over people because they are different in some way, be it tall or whatever. I dislike the whole concept of a show that puts together girls on the basis of their looks and not their skills. Some indeed speak well Leslie from the US springs to mind though mainly the asian girls speak best, but most of them are not a patch on the rotund guy with a pony tail that wears a hanbok and teaches English on T.V!
Yeah, why anyone is surprised about this is beyond me. I'm honestly more angry with the bottom feeders on the panel rather than the producers. It's one thing to be angry at the "dirty" foreigners invading your country (it's not right, but it's understandable)... it's an entirely other thing to sell out fellow non-Koreans on a national stage purely for a paycheck and 15 minutes of fame. And yet, if I, as a white male, were to go on TV and call all foreign women fat slobs (a stereotype I certainly don't actually believe), I would be taken to task for it. It's sickening what money/fame can do to people.
They are being hypocrites, but it's Korea afterall. I'm sure if they had to put up with Koreans (especially drunk ajjossis) calling their Korean boyfriends sluts, whores and even worse things, they'd have a different story. It's not as bad for a Korean guy to date/sleep with foreign women, but the opposite is bad. I know two foreign women that have been dating their Korean boyfriends for years. They never have the same problems that I had with Koreans that experienced when dating Korean women. In the end, I stopped dating Korean womem. Too much baggage and BS. How often have you seen in Korea's media stories or headlines like, "Foreign Women are Stealing Our Men" anyway? I would really like to hear the answer to that one.
@JOHNT It is sad that you felt you couldnt possibly date a Korean girl anymore just because of other people's reactions but I can completely see where you are coming from. I have just taken to never holding hands, and speaking polite and formal Korean with my girlfriend. It shouldnt have to be like that but it is...
Well... Here's what you need to do... Some of us speak Korean well. I'm sure we can all get access to Skype. Some of you are pissed and would like to be heard. Why doesn't someone put together podcast called 미남들의 수다. Rather than just complain about it... Do something!
[...] but at least I have the class not to bash my own women on foreign TV. [...]
Has anybody seen the episode to see if the newspaper description jives with the actual episode?
So... how many Misuda girls have been pursued by Korean men simply because they were tall (and/or blond) and spoke English? Are they then not Charisma Women?
I wonder could be possibly be any more superficial and childish? This kind of article hurts my faith in humanity.
No, I get the point, I'm just not going to waste my time being angry about it. Of course the show is scripted, and of course a show that has men talking about Korea is going to fail. Think about it in reverse if there was a show called "Chat with 소녀시대," the show would be absolutly dreadful, (much like most other Korean television shows like "Golden Bell," [Woopi, an hour of famous people sitting on the floor occasionally answering questions and doing sexy dances.]) Anyway chat with 소녀시대, in America would be aces better than, "A Sit Down with some Korean Guys," a show where Korean men answer questions about their favorite computer games, and if they like beer and hamburgers. My point is is that women are much more interesting than men, especially if they are somewhat attractive and speak your language. And yes these women are only slightly famous because they can speak Korean, and that is the same as being popular for being tall.
Do people actually watch Misuda, and there-after expect thought provoking commentary?
Don't Korean women prefer to watch men though?
Bunch of whining people here. Big deal! Even here in Australia, whites thinks 'asian girls' are easy. Jesus, snap out of it.
Kushibo I'm glad you asked that question. It reminds me of the several comments that two journalists made up about me when I went on Korean TV. One even fabricated a quote! (Got that fixed via Email.) I don't really understand why everyone is complaining about their looks. Every Korean I've talked to has said, for example, Daru of Finland defies the title of the show. These girls aren't always chosen for their looks; they want entertainment too. Anyway, that's kind of irrelevant. Also there is a men's version of the show that airs every Chuseok and Seollal. I haven't seen it so I don't know what the content is.
Everyone's so upset over someone else maybe gettin' something that they aren't. Maybe instead of gettin' upset, maybe they should be learnin' how to get some of their own. "The Man" likes it when the people are too upset to learn, and more upset to not get what they want. The less they have, the more "The Man" has. The longer they stay ignorant, the longer "The Man" holds power. Billy says fight not thy brother and sister. Learn to get what you want on your own, and watch "The Man" fade to dust.
"Do people actually watch Misuda, and there-after expect thought provoking commentary?" Today when my boss was scolding my one jackass coworkers who has a bad attitude about the fact that company rules require him to speak English to me, the jackass offered up that the even the girls of Misuda have said that, "when you go to a country you should learn the language of that country." So, I guess some Koreans are watching this and taking it to heart.
Daru of Finland is the only slightly physically average girl, she is on there because her INSANELY good Korean carries the bimbos who speak really poorly.
To be honest, these dumb skanks are speaking to an audience of dumb racists, so they kinda have to bash the foreign population. That's what Koreans want to see - foreigner bashing.
"Has anybody seen the episode to see if the newspaper description jives with the actual episode?" Oh, god no. My body doesn't produce enough estrogen for me to stand more than 5 minutes of that show.
...not that your question isn't a valid one. Given the racist undertones, I would hope that the ladies would have been a bit more cautious with their answers. Maybe some of the more cautious answers were edited out or ignored.
Rum Diary, Where along the dumb skank/dumb racist scale do you fall?
I'm shocked that everyone is so outraged by this. I'm an expat in Korea and I've never seen such a high concentration of unattractive western men (many with dubious personalities) walking around with good-looking Korean girls. They're nothing better than non-paying sex tourists.
Given that the Korean media is pushing Western standards of beauty onto Korean women, you'd think it would have figured out by now that foreigners are sometimes more attractive to some people (both male and female). It's the same everywhere. It's biological. Hollywood has made a fortune from it, so has the Korean entertainment industry. No need to spin it negatively.
Wow... I was going to post a response to an earlier story in a few days, but thanks to this article I've moved it up to now. http://chrisinsouthkorea.blogspot.com/2009/07/eight-reasons-korean-girls-go-for.html
"I’m shocked that everyone is so outraged by this. I’m an expat in Korea and I’ve never seen such a high concentration of unattractive western men (many with dubious personalities) walking around with good-looking Korean girls. They’re nothing better than non-paying sex tourists." I'm quite attractive. I've been told I look like Brad Pitt. ;) Now, in all seriousness...Beauty is only skin deep, isn't it?
“I’m shocked that everyone is so outraged by this. I’m an expat in Korea and I’ve never seen such a high concentration of unattractive western men (many with dubious personalities) walking around with good-looking Korean girls. They’re nothing better than non-paying sex tourists.” I’m quite attractive. I’ve been told I look like Brad Pitt. ;) Now, in all seriousness…Beauty is only skin deep, isn’t it? - Only for blind and/or ugly people.
"Only for blind and/or ugly people." Ironic coming from a troll.
Since I know I have more than "very plain features" and was often told I look like a handful of different famous actors even back in the states why aren't I "always being followed by pretty girls?” Maybe it's because I haven't used this line...“most western men approach Korean women by saying they want to learn Korean.” The reason I don't learn Korean(besides the reasons always mentioned), is because I know Seoul will NEVER have a Foreign MALE version of Misuda. And...Korean males are jealous and couldn't stand to see "their" women flirting with me on T.V.
Ok here are rough translations of what the girls said that's relevant to this article: Dominique: Foreigners who spend a few months in Korea and can't really speak are fine, but if you spend, say, 10 years in the country, you need to know the language. Not knowing it makes you seem dumb, and some say Korean culture doesn't match them... so why are they here? If you go to Quebec and can't speak French I'll think it's annoying, so I think if you live in Korea you should learn Korean. Annabelle: I have a friend, a guy, who's lived in Korea for about 5 years, but he can barely speak any Korean. It's because in Korea most people speak English or want to learn English. And if you go to Itaewon, you really don't need English. Bianca: I have a professor, I hope it's okay to say this, who has lived in Korea for 3 years and can't say a word of Korean. In class he always talks about how he doesn't know Korean but has no problems living in Korea. Kusty (didn't show the English on screen): I was a professor for 5 years and would always lecture in English and talk to the Korean students in English, but suddenly I decided to switch to Korean and the students said they didn't want that from students, academies, or colleges. They wanted a professor who spoke only English. Sayuri: If you go to another country you should learn the language and culture (her accent screwed with me I might be slightly off) out of respect. "It's etiquette." lol (they go on about garbage for a while and mishear Annabelle's comment on "I <3 Ajumma" shirts as "I Hate Ajumma") Korean Panelist: About foreigners not learning Korean, there are many Koreans who go abroad to learn English and come back still not knowing English. Dominique: In Quebec you only need to know a little English. When Koreans study abroad in Quebec they all give up learning French. They don't learn a word of French since they can just learn some e English and be fine. But, they all hang out with each other, go to church together, and eventually get married to each other if they stay long enough. It's as though they're living in a small version of Korea. FINALLY onto the meat of this article they introduce a new topic "Foreigners who meet Korean women easily." Eupracia: That's right... one time in Kenya I went to a gathering. All of the (what) had their Korean girlfriends... maybe, if you're tall and speak good English, you can get a Korean girlfriend fast. Korean Panelist: But in Kenya, if you're tall and speak English, will you not be popular? Eupracia: If you're tall, you'll be a little popular, but in Korea you really be popular. Bella: German men have it like that. In Germany they can be tall, but they might have a strange face. But the moment they arrive in Korea they become beautiful men. They start to act like Casanovas. Kusty: REALLY bad-looking, TOTAL loner (왕따) teachers in Korea often have GORGEOUS Korean women by their sides. It's amazing how-- (she gets cut off by the MC) oh they're loners to the core. Eva: If you listen to these men speak English, it's so dry, so boring, and their jokes so lame, but the girls can't understand all of it so it's fun for them. Sayuri: It's the same in Japan. The guys abroad who have few friends and don't look all that great come to Japan and get a girlfriend almost instantly. I once was walking through Harajuku and saw a guy who looked just like Austin Powers, complete with the awkward teeth... screw that. Christina: I don't want to go back to my home country and see those punks. Since coming to Korea I've become so popular! I had no imagination before I came (might be her bad Korean taking over here). Eva: When a Korean friend of mine gets a boyfriend from England, or any western country for that matter, I ask to see him first. By talking to him I can read him and tell if he's a good guy or not. I had one friend who made a British boyfriend. I heard from Viki that she asked him about himself, and found out he had a girlfriend in England at the time. Korean Panelist: What do foreign men usually do when they approach Korean women? Annebelle: Language exchange. They act as though they want to learn Korean. So they meet at a coffee shop, drink coffee, and have a regular language exchange. Next time they meet they have a meal, and keep stepping it up until they start an official relationship. Dominique: (I couldn't figure out what the hell she was trying to say with all her sentence fragments but it had to do with the physical aspects of Koreans and Westerners that Korean girls like and don't like.) (Then they go on to talk about foreigners not learning chopsticks, taking off shoes, and being a moron when drunk, etc. Then more garbage.) I'm so glad Christina never has anything useful to say. Her accent is so hard to work through...
"It’s so strange that western men who of course have very plan features are always being followed by pretty girls." To reiterate: also is it strange that a show which claims to chat with "beauties" has some pretty dull-looking women on its panel. Vera, quoted, is one good example. 미녀? Gedouddahere. (Guzal, however, is one fine young lady.)
I have not read any replies, just giving my reaction first. So the "worst" foreigners in Korea are the ones that "always speak English or their native language, never learning Korean, and easily meet Korean women". That is elitism and jealousy coming from western girls who speak Korean. Only an accomplished speaker of Korean as a second language who has her head up her ass would look down on a person living in Korea who doesn't learn Korean. Learning a second language takes a great deal of time and effort, and not everybody has the time or desire. And Sayuri will have us believe it's proper etiquette for all of us to become fluent in Korean. Outrageous. Why does Eva want to see her Korean friends' potential foreign boyfriends? Is she going to spare her friend from having a relationship with a guy who is a "loser" at home according to Eva? Give me a break. That's a real cockblock thing to do. That "loser" could be everything the Korean friend ever wanted in a relationship, but may not somehow live up to Eva's standard. How did the reference to an internet site where foreigners are degrading Korean women get in the discussion?
Looking at what the misuda panelists were talking about now, I don't really see anything that incendiary about it, besides an overgeneralization and miscalculating their own roles in the very same criticism they're dishing out. The mistake they're making is that they are limiting this to "foreign men" as if it's a unique characteristic of that particular group, when clearly it's not. But the comments, overall, are nothing to get terribly upset over, and there's really no need to feel threatened by those particular women or the show itself. |
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